Why Marriage Matters

I don't know how people can watch stuff like this and still vote for Prop 8.

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7 Comments (+add yours?)

  1. Lightfoot Letters
    Oct 31, 2008 @ 15:05:00

    Prop 8 is about reinstating the vote of the people voided by the Ca. Su. Ct. Nothing more, Nothing Less. If you agree with four on the court deciding, vote against Prop 8. If you think the vote of the people should be up-held, vote for Prop 8. Either way, legal obligations and benefits will not change in the State of California.

    Reply

  2. Timmy!
    Oct 31, 2008 @ 15:33:00

    You, sir, are a liar. Prop 8 will strip me of my right to marry my partner of six years. You can prevaricate and obfuscate all you want. You can say it's about this or that. But whatever you and the rest of the Prop 8 supporters say, you can't seem to admit that Prop 8 will take away my right to marry my partner of six years.

    Reply

  3. Lightfoot Letters
    Nov 01, 2008 @ 12:43:00

    Possibly you are not aware of the prop approved by approx. 60% of the citizens voided by the Ca. Su. Ct. on a 4 3 dec. Calif. law already supports all legal benefits and obligations of domistic partners. If you live in another state you could be right. I do not know. I'm sorry u fell it necessary to call me a liar,,but that is the current law in Calif. and recent history. But, at least you did not call me a Republican or Democrat. Now, that would have been insulting.
    I personally do not support nor oppose Prop 8. What I do support is a law that gives all legal benefits to all long term living arrangements..not just gays and lesbians.

    Reply

  4. Timmy!
    Nov 01, 2008 @ 23:35:00

    Lightfoot, I'm just not understanding where you are coming from. I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that you support 8. It's a topic about which I am feeling rather frustrated and angry. Domestic partnerships are a legal construct – an imitation of marriage in all but name only. It's meant to be separate and equal. It's separate, but not equal. DPs are not as good as marriage. Some people have encountered some rather difficult issues with
    private institutions who honor marriage but not DPs.Like you, I support laws that confer the same legal benefits to all long term partners. Unlike you, apparently, I believe we have an adequate arrangement for that in marriage, which is available for gay and straight couples now and there's no reason for it to change. I don't see the need to set up parallel institutions because we are afraid offending the sensibilities of some Jesus freaks in Utah.

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  5. Lightfoot Letters
    Nov 03, 2008 @ 13:42:00

    There are many reasons as a liberal that make this issue very difficult for me.Marriage is a religious concept about moral and ethical obligations usually recognized by the state. But, not always. A contract is a state concept about legal benefits and obligations. Never recognized by the church. A marriage is performed by the church or other individual of faith. Not the state.It has not been that long ago that the state had nothing to do with or control of the state of marriage. What the state issues, referred to as a marriage license is just that. A license, a contract agreed by both parties as to their legal obligations. The same as a divorce decree which is a statement as to the further legal benefits and legal obligations. The state concept is akin to civil marriage contracts or domestic parternerships contracts all with out the moral or religious implications. As you put it a legal construct. There is no love, honor ect., in a contract nor a moral duty. I can understand your frustation and angry. As a liberal I have a problem with forcing others to think like me, by force of law, especially on moral issues.
    There is just not an easy answer for most folks.. when you get into what is taught in public education and church. Many see it as a lawyers dream and a citizens nightmare. Which is far beyond, what you desire and the real issue of gay/lesbian marriage. Sometime, you just have to cross your fingers and hope the people make the best choice for all concerned.
    The bright light that I see, is some religions, on their own, without new laws or force, have changed their traditional view of marriage and welcome gay and lesbian couples. Which means, you could be married by the church, but might not be reconized by the state. Or you could be married by the state but might not be reconized by all church. Which is basically the same as we have now.

    Reply

  6. Timmy!
    Nov 03, 2008 @ 14:35:00

    I can understand your
    frustation and angry. As a liberal I have a problem with forcing others
    to think like me, by force of law, especially on moral issues.I don't understand this part about forcing others to think like me. Could you explain that a bit more? I
    take issue with your use of the term "moral issue" since I do not
    believe this is a moral issue (it is a legal issue) and even if it
    were, that still gives no church the right to make the final
    determination on it. Marriage is a legal contract. Yes,
    there are some churches who won't bless gay marriages, just like their
    are churches who won't bless interfaith marriages (a person in that
    church marrying someone of a different faith), or who won't bless
    interracial marriages (like the Mormons up until the 1970s or like Bob
    Jones University / Trinity Baptist Church up until 2003), or any other
    number of other weirdness. And for every church who won't perform/bless
    said marriages, there are ten who will. So let's cross this church issue off the list.
    There is just not an easy answer for most folks.. when you get into
    what is taught in public education and church.Gay
    marriage is the law of the land. Gay people have been getting
    married for half a year to no ill effects. None. No children have been
    indoctrinated, gay marriage is NOT being taught in any significant way
    in the schools right now, and there is no reason to believe that would
    change. Any assertion otherwise is simply an attempt to scare you and
    to confuse the issue.This is NOT about education. That is a LIE and DON'T YOU BELIEVE IT.

    Many see it as a lawyers
    dream and a citizens nightmare. Which is far beyond, what you desire
    and the real issue of gay/lesbian marriage. I
    don't see gay marriage as a lawyer's dream and a citizen's nightmare. I
    don't mean to be obtuse here, but lawyers are citizens, first. Just
    like you and me. Also, to curtail my freedoms because some lawyer
    somewhere might be in favor of me having full, equal citizenship in the
    land where I was born and have paid taxes my whole life? On what planet
    does this make sense to you? Sometime, you just have to
    cross your fingers and hope the people make the best choice for all
    concerned.
    Crossing of fingers, hoping, praying; those are nice luxuries for those
    who believe in such things. I do not. So I fight like hell and make a
    lot of noise. The bright light that I see, is some religions, on their own,
    without new laws or force, have changed their traditional view of
    marriage and welcome gay and lesbian couples. Which means, you could be
    married by the church, but might not be reconized by the state. Or you
    could be married by the state but might not be reconized by all church.
    Which is basically the same as we have now.Well,
    technically, I can get married in many churches and be blessed by that
    church's preacher. I can have the choir sing and the congregation pray
    for me. And it will be considered a legally binding, equal marriage. Until Tuesday, anyways

    Reply

  7. Lightfoot Letters
    Nov 04, 2008 @ 16:43:00

    Good Post. Might take a couple times to answer with any degree of intelligence on my part.

    I can understand your frustation and angry. As a liberal I have a problem with forcing others to think like me, by force of law, especially on moral issues.
    There is just not an easy answer for most folks.. when you get into what is taught in public education and church.
    Many see it as a lawyers dream and a citizens nightmare. Which is far beyond, what you desire and the real issue of gay/lesbian marriage.
    For me I do not like the idea of the legal cases (like Canada) being brought against people of faith to stop teaching what they consider a moral issue in my name. Nor would I like people of faith bringing legal action against me because I agree with you in principle in the name of religion. This goes beyond legal benefits and gay/lesbian marriage into what citizens can be punished for thinking. And yes, I realize that most of society support hate crime laws for what citizens say or think. In my opinion this is what many people, church or school fear , not gay marriage, but the ACLU knocking on their door with a threat to sue them out of business for teaching gay lifestyles or not teaching gay lifestyles. This is what I mean lawyers dream, big business, citizens (teacher,parent) nitemare.
    Sometime, you just have to cross your fingers and hope the people make the best choice for all concerned.
    Sometimes in a democracy this is after you fight like hell. But, I bow to your experience in this matter which is surely much greater than mine. I do not think prop 8 will pass..if it does.. go out there and fight like hell and make a lot of noise again untill we all hear.

    Reply

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